Cherokee : WikiLang

[Mol_Bolom]

Ok, this thread is for anyone who would like to ask me questions about the Cherokee wiki.

This message here, is where I will work on new pages that I will have some trouble with, and are a bit difficult for me to word.  As well as I will write about what I will be working on, or at least be prepared to begin working on.

So check back with this thread often.

Planning:

• Word order
  
• Possessives
  
• More detail to the -hv- page and add another page for -ni+wes-.
  
• Rename the Verb page to Tenses and completely rewrite the Verb page to work on explaining the polysynthetic nature of the language.
  

Word Order

There are three possible orderings of sentences in Cherokee. Subject + Verb + Object, Subject + Object + Verb, or Object + Verb + Subject.

The man sees a bird.
ᎠᏍᎦᏯ ᎠᎪᏘ ᏥᏍᏆ. (SVO)
ᎠᏍᎦᏯ ᏥᏍᏆ ᎠᎪᏘ. (SOV)
ᏥᏍᏆ ᎠᎪᏘ ᎠᏍᎦᏯ. (OVS)

It is usually only with simple sentences that SVO is used.

Possessives

Possessives are formed in one of two ways, relationship or ownership (Something that can be given away, or something that can not be given away).

If an object can be given away, then either the words for "have" or "own" are used.

I have a cat. wesa agikaha | ᏪᏌ ᎠᎩᎧᎭ
I have some water. ama aginea | ᎠᎹ ᎠᎩᏁᎠ
I have some paper. digohweli aginva | ᏗᎪᏪᎵ ᎠᎩᏅᎠ
I have it. agiha | ᎠᎩᎭ
I have a pencil. digohwelodohdi agwvya | ᏗᎪᏪᎶᏙᏗ ᎠᏋᏯ
I own a cat. wesa agwatseli | ᏪᏌ ᎠᏆᏤᎵ
I own water. ama agwatseli | ᎠᎹ ᎠᏆᏤᎵ
I own some paper. digohweli digwatseli | ᏗᎪᏪᎵ ᏗᏆᏤᎵ
I own it. agwatseli | ᎠᏆᏤᎵ
I own a pencil. digohwelodohdi agwatseli | ᏗᎪᏪᎶᏙᏗ ᎠᏆᏤᎵ

If an object can not be given away, then prefixes are added to the word rather than a separate word.

My head. jisgoli | ᏥᏍᎪᎵ
My eyes. ditsiktoli | ᏗᏥᎦᏙᎵ
My father. agidoda | ᎠᎩᏙᏓ
I am his father. tsidoda | ᏥᏙᏓ

A different form uses n+pronoun+tense word forms.

My family. notsia sidvnela | ᏃᏥᎠ ᏏᏛᏁᎳ
Our family. nidia sidvnela | ᏂᏗᎠ ᏏᏛᏁᎳ

[Mol_Bolom]

First question I have for everyone...

What would be the terminology for words that change, Morpheme, morphed, what?

Such as the normal way to say "You went" is "tsenvsvi", but a modified variant is "hesvi".  I think this is something I should address sooner or later and would like to know what to call the page.  Which will also contain tidbits about changes depending on suffixes, etc for the major verb types based on certain modified variants...Such as with the verb bases -woni- and -yohu- have the same modifications to each other (both prefixes and suffixes), and the verb bases -hv- and -adehyohv- use similar suffixes, but the prefixes would be modified differently.

[hashi]

First question I have for everyone...

What would be the terminology for words that change, Morpheme, morphed, what?

Such as the normal way to say "You went" is "tsenvsvi", but a modified variant is "hesvi".  I think this is something I should address sooner or later and would like to know what to call the page.  Which will also contain tidbits about changes depending on suffixes, etc for the major verb types based on certain modified variants...Such as with the verb bases -woni- and -yohu- have the same modifications to each other (both prefixes and suffixes), and the verb bases -hv- and -adehyohv- use similar suffixes, but the prefixes would be modified differently.

You're not talking about synonyms are you? words that mean the same, but are spelled and pronounced differently. Or are you meaning contractions of some kind?

Good idea creating this thread

[Mol_Bolom]

You're not talking about synonyms are you? words that mean the same, but are spelled and pronounced differently. Or are you meaning contractions of some kind?

Nah, not a synonym.  The English language has a few like that, such as drunk and drank is different than drink, but they're the same words. As well as the word "here", the 'h' can become silent before certain words such as "Come here" which can become "Come 'ere", and "probably" is often times shortened to "prah ee" (in my neck of the woods)...It's some kind of change that occurs in rapid speech, I guess would be the terminology for it.

[hashi]

You're not talking about synonyms are you? words that mean the same, but are spelled and pronounced differently. Or are you meaning contractions of some kind?

Nah, not a synonym.  The English language has a few like that, such as drunk and drank is different than drink, but they're the same words. As well as the word "here", the 'h' can become silent before certain words such as "Come here" which can become "Come 'ere", and "probably" is often times shortened to "prah ee" (in my neck of the woods)...It's some kind of change that occurs in rapid speech, I guess would be the terminology for it.

Maybe something like colloquialism or alternative forms?

[Mol_Bolom]

Maybe something like colloquialism or alternative forms?

Colloquialism will work for part of it, I think inflected might be better for the others.  So perhaps I could call the page "Inflection and Colloquialisms" or "Inflection and Colloquialisms in Cherokee"...Something along that line.

[hashi]

Maybe something like colloquialism or alternative forms?

Colloquialism will work for part of it, I think inflected might be better for the others.  So perhaps I could call the page "Inflection and Colloquialisms" or "Inflection and Colloquialisms in Cherokee"...Something along that line.

Best to keep it short, so perhaps Cherokee:Colloquialisms could work?

Also, I'm not sure what you voted in the poll about Language Difficulties, but are you against perhaps giving cherokee an informed and educated rating on difficulty? We have started adding some already like here^W and then you can see a specific one here^W.

[Mol_Bolom]

Best to keep it short, so perhaps Cherokee:Colloquialisms could work?

That'll be fine...

Also, I'm not sure what you voted in the poll about Language Difficulties, but are you against perhaps giving Cherokee an informed and educated rating on difficulty? We have started adding some already like here^W and then you can see a specific one here^W.

Didn't even know about it...

<Major edit>
After  reading through some things, I've come up with a better description...

Grammar : 5

• Highly agglutinating.  Many prefixes and suffixes that can either change the meaning of the word, subject, object, tense, or add an adverb to modify the verb, mark the sentence/word a question, etc.
  

Pronunciation : 3

• Difficult to speak, for there are 4 pitch levels that can rise or fall, along with short and long vowels, however, once learned and understood as to when and why the pitches change, then it becomes far more simpler.
  

Lexicon : 5

• Because of the polysynthetic nature of the language, a lexicon is very difficult for many verbs can be modified into almost 22000 different forms with different subjects, objects, tenses, etc.
  

Regularity : 3

• Fairly regular. Pitch changes are regular for the most part (Depending on prefixes and suffixes used), modifications of suffixes and prefixes are fairly regular, except for the occasional odd forms.
  

I think this sums it up better than what I wrote the last time.

[hashi]

Very good. I have added these to the cherokee pages and the difficultly pages with a backlink here for any disputes.

[Riptide]

Can you add a phonology (Sounds and Writing) page for tsalagi? Wado.

[邪悪歌]

Personally, I'd like to see more information about morphology.  If Cherokee is a polysynthetic language, you should show off what makes it polysynthetic   Also, I see you mainly use Latin transcriptions in your lessons (at least from what I saw) perhaps you could use more of the Cherokee syllabary along with them.

[Mol_Bolom]

Personally, I'd like to see more information about morphology.  If Cherokee is a polysynthetic language, you should show off what makes it polysynthetic   Also, I see you mainly use Latin transcriptions in your lessons (at least from what I saw) perhaps you could use more of the Cherokee syllabary along with them.

Morphology? Heh, that'll be tricky, and very monotonous, and something I'll have to think about.

As for polysynthetic, I am wondering if I truly understand that word. Considering the wiki page about -hv-, which can be translated as hand to, give to, pass to, send to, mail to, put down, set down, put down on top of, set down on top of, etc, depending on what suffixes and/or prefixes are used, and not to mention other infixes which can mean the object is either a liquid, living thing, long, flexible, or has an undefined shape.

The Latin transcriptions, I'm ready to do away with those completely.  After seeing a thread somewhere which someone was "whining"  ( ) about the use of non-Latin characters, it was mentioned that there could be "hover", "hint", or something that when the mouse hovered over the word then the Latin script could be read.  Either way, I'm ready to figure that out once I can...

I've yet to get this bloody computer up and running, and it has been driving me bonkers. I'm going to give it one more bloody week, and if I can't get it running with 3D rendering and where X wont become unstable, then I'll revert back to Slackware 12.2 and get back to this...

[邪悪歌]

Okay Mol_Bolom, I have made you moderator of this forum... also, if you wanna see what I was referring to as to stuff to add for morphology and about polysynthetic stuff and whatnot, just take a look at my info for Inuktitut I added recently to the wiki

[Mol_Bolom]

Okay, I've been slowly working on a page for Phonology, though I haven't added it yet.  Right now it's the first message in this thread.  So check it out, see if it makes sense and if it's ready for the wiki...

[hashi]

It looks pretty good to me

[Mol_Bolom]

Just added hover text for every Cherokee word/words for the number page.  Check it out and tell me if it functions correctly.

Thanks.
ᏣᎵ.

<Edit> Please list your browser, too.

[hashi]

Just added hover text for every Cherokee word/words for the number page.  Check it out and tell me if it functions correctly.

Thanks.
ᏣᎵ.

<Edit> Please list your browser, too.

Works fine in Opera 10.50. But why didn't you use the {{q}} template?

[Mol_Bolom]

Works fine in Opera 10.50. But why didn't you use the {{q}} template?

Oh shucky darns.  I searched everywhere for that for some time.  Must have overlooked it somewhere, or just didn't recognize it...Well, time to re-edit...

Thanks, .