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motanz
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« on: Sep 01 2010, 02:40:43 »

Tabehan is Tabea's COUNTRY 13 language. I'm new at conlanging, so I need some advices...

Consonants
By far this is what I've got

B - /b/ /β/
BB - /bw/
V - /v/ /w/
G - /g/ /ɣ/ /ɰ/
D - /d/ /ð/
X - /ʃ/ /ɕ/
XX - /dʑ/
S - /s/
SS - /ts/
C - /kh/ /k/ /ç/
M - /m/
N - /n/
NH - /ŋ/ /ɲ/
L - /l/
LL - /ɬ/
LH - /ɾ/
P - /ph/ /p/
R - /ʁ/ /ʀ/
T - /th/ /t/
TT - /tɕ/
F - /f/
FF - /pf/
H - /h/ /ɸ/
Y - /ʝ/ /j/

Vowels
Here's where I'm completely lost, I know the sounds but not how to write/represent them and which would be long or short...

Front: /i/ /y/ /e/ /ø/ /ε/
Central: /ı/ /ʊ/ /ɵ/ /ə/ /a/
Back: /ɯ/ /u/ /o/ /ɔ/ /α/

Any ideas???  Think
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Ketsuban
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« Reply #1 on: Sep 01 2010, 03:53:32 »

All the vowels are short -- if they were long they'd be /i:/, /u:/, &c &c.
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motanz
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« Reply #2 on: Sep 01 2010, 06:52:06 »

yeah I know they are all short vowels and how to "make them" long, but I'm still thinking which of them would better be long instead of short... I guess my english is bad in this type of topics hahaha  Haha

My main idea was to write central vowels as a, e, i, o & u, and then adding diacritics to specify frontness or backness, or maybe use dipthongs? hahaha HELP!
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« Reply #3 on: Sep 02 2010, 02:39:03 »

Personally I'm not a fan of such big phoneme inventories, particularly when it comes to vowels. You have 15 individual vowel phonemes. I know you may like it, but if it were me, I would cut that right back (because, for one, it'll be easier to represent less orthographically) and perhaps use some of them as allophones.

The only one I have an issue with is /ɾ/ being <lh>. I would move /ɾ/ to <r> and put /ʁ/ and /ʀ/ as <rh> or <rr>. But thats just nit picking. Otherwise, I like it Smile
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motanz
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« Reply #4 on: Sep 02 2010, 01:15:01 »

Thanks for your answers!  Coffee Grin

I know they're a lot and I was missing æ so it would make them 16 hahaha
But I'm thinking about this...

Short: /ı/ /ʊ/ /ɯ/ /ə/ /ɵ/ /a/ /α/
Long: /iː/ /uː/ /yː/ /eː/ /øː/ /æː/ /ɔː/
Writing: i, u, ü, e, o, a, ö

So there's only 7 vowels in writing, all short, but long when stressed or before some consonants... good idea?
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« Reply #5 on: Sep 04 2010, 12:36:51 »

Basically it is okay, but you have to think about the phonological and orthographical rules determining laxness/length. As you seem to go rather the German/Swedish way than the Finnish or Hungarian/Irish one, I would abolish the digraphs <bb>, <xx>, <ss>, <ll>, <tt> and <ff>, changing them into e.g. <bv>, <dx>, <ts> or <ds>, <lh>, <tx> or <tg> or <td> and <pf>, <ph> or <pv> respectively, because that gives you the possibility of indicating short stressed vowels the way some Germanic languages do, cf German
<schief> [Si:f] vs. <Schiff> [SIf]
<Lüge> [ly:g@] vs. <Lücke> [lYk@]
<Buch> [bu:x] vs. <Bucht> [bUxt]
<kam> [ka:m] vs. <Kamm> [kam]
<Robe> [ro:b@] vs. <Robbe> [rOb@]
or Swedish
<tak> [tA:k] vs. <tack> [tak:]
<glas> [glA:s] vs. <glass> [glas:]
 - but to decide that one would have to know more about your phonology...

I'd be a bit unhappy with the pairing of ɯ and ɵ with ü and o, it's ok, but counter intuitive for me as a German speaking person. I would even extend the vowel system into
/iː/ /uː/ /yː/ /eː/ /øː/ /æː/ /oː/ /α:/ (i, u, ü, e, ö, ä, o, a)
/ı/ /ʊ/ /ʏ/ /ɯ/ /ɛ/ /ə/ /œ/ /ɵ/ /ɔ/ /a/ (i, u, ü, û or w or ŭ, e, e or ĕ or ă, ö, ô or ŏ, o, a + following (orthographical) geminate or (phonological) cluster)
But again - best to decide if you already have a phonology, too, since the orthography reflects the phonology in many instances (like German <ch> for the allophones [ x ], [X] and [C] or <e> for [ @ ] in unstressed syllables).
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